Any topic any time. No profanity.

Wednesday, September 28, 2011

Last Night was a fluke at Horseman's, here is what liberals really think about a conversation

I started to have a conversation on the Sierra Watch blog because I thought the topics there were kind of interesting.  Now this was just a couple of days ago and I had a bit of courteous back and forth on a economic view and a political view.  Even another liberal chimed in to tell me how wrong I was on just about everything.  I maintained my cool and thought Don Pelton, a local liberal, was actually engaging in a conversation on his "Sierra Voices".  But no, he really wasn't.  I read his heading and thought he was. Oops, it was just a lib. 

I see his comments all over including the Union and some other lefty blogs.  But I guess I must have intimidated him into silence.  I have found that liberals only want to hear from other liberals and whenever there is contra input they clam up and hide.  Of course his blog has very few commenter's even from the left and now I understand why.  Here is a copy/paste of his decision to remove himself from his own blog because I dared to post there.  What a hoot!

This has been interesting and fun and kind of compelling in a way. But it’s clear to me by now that we are unlikely ever to agree in any meaningful way on any economic or political matter.
So, I hope you’ll understand and not be offended by the following:
I’ve decided, because I truly have some other chores that I should be spending my time on (like splitting wood for winter, which is coming on soon), that I’m going to refrain as much as possible from getting into discussions with you about political and economic matters any more.
We have been pleasing ourselves each with the sound of our own words and the shape of our own ideas, but neither of us has — or will — change in any way in these areas, I suspect.
That’s actually quite fine with me. These are only political and economic ideas after all. And, as such, they are not the most important issues between human beings. I accept that I could be wrong in any of those ideas. That wouldn’t be the end of the world. :-)
I bet if we explored it, we might find that we have in common more important and more basic values, like family, love of country, military experience, love of this region, hobbies, disciplines, talents, etc.
I have two older brothers who have been and continue to be lifelong Republicans. There is almost nothing in the economic and political realm that we agree on, but I would give my life for either of them in a minute if it was necessary.
So, I understand first-hand that there are more important things in life that draw us together (while political discussions tend to drive us apart).
We have a lot of neighbors with whom we also do not share any economic or political beliefs, but we would risk a lot — for instance — to help save their homes from fire, as I know they would for us.
I worked for 30 years at Stanford (as a systems programmer and network engineer) and my wife (to whom I’ve been married for almost 50 years) worked 40 years there before we retired a few years ago to a house we built here over 20 years ago on land we bought nearly 40 years ago. We have wonderful grown children who are fine upstanding and sober hardworking citizens. And we have grandchildren who are being raised the same way.
In all that, I’m betting we could find a lot in common that transcends these mere economic and political ideas.
So, I wish you well, and I want you to feel free to keep commenting here in various Sierra Voices threads if you wish, but I probably won’t be joining much in the conversation, at least not on economic and political matters, because they kinda take me over! :-)

Now understand I was not combative at all.  So another liberal bites the dust in the land of conversation.

This is the link to is site if you don't believe me.


  1. Thanks, Todd.

    You have so far been mostly civil in your dialog with me on Sierra Voices, and I appreciate this, and I believe I have mostly too.

    And you're right that, as a result of our conversation (in which we arrived at a huge impass), I suggested that we avoid specifically political and economic discussions, because it was clear to me that neither of us would change his view and it would be a huge time waster and therefore a source of needless friction. As I explained in the note you reprinted above, this is nothing more than I have done with my own brothers, with whom I continue to have warm and affectionate conversations on many matters of mutual interest.

    Obviously I didn't suggest that we limit our conversation to exclude politics because I wasn't up to the dialog or intimidated, as anyone can plainly see who wants to check out the full thread, here:

    Mostly it was my shock at your ridiculing response, after posting those lines you quoted above, in which I sincerely but naively revealed a lot about myself in hopes that you would respond in a like warm manner. I was hoping to go beyond the nasty rhetoric that usually characterizes the conversations between left and right, which I do find anguishing. I was strongly suggesting that we probably have many human things in common that go beyond mere political ideas.

    But your entire response was "You crack me up."

    I felt, frankly, kind of humiliated and foolish for expecting a warm response from you. Instead, I felt I got a verbal slap in the face.

    I don't apologize for making what I feel was a sincere but apparently naive attempt to get beyond the usual mutually-distrustful rhetoric between left and right by looking for some common ground.

    How would YOU suggest we do that?

    I do thank you for your mostly civil tone, except for that last "crack me up" remark, whatever that was, which I did in fact delete because I assumed you'd feel it would look silly there without my now-deleted remark preceding it.

    I'm disappointed that you would characterize your non-response to my risky offer to be more human as ... you "intimidating" me into silence. Does this response sound like I'm intimidated or being silent, or like I've "bit the dust?"

    But I'm also not going to use your interpretation above as a provocation to waste our time in fruitless verbal headbutting over political and economic ideas.

    As I said before, I wish you well.

    And I continue to be available for a more human and honest dialog on almost anything except politics or economics, here or in Sierra Voices, if you can ever get past your need to mock the "libs."


  2. Whoops, I said ' ... if you can ever get past your need to mock the "libs." '

    I meant to say ' ... if you can ever get past your CHILDISH need to mock the "libs." '

  3. No Don, you really should read what you write. You are a person who has quite a large opinion of himself.

  4. Oops, I meant to say "a childish view of yourself. You are simly afraid to even have a conversation with a conservative. That's OK.

  5. Here is a view of Mr. Pelton from David Watkinson regarding Mr. Pelton's trustworthiness regarding facts.

    "Mr. Pelton is the Editor of Sierra Voices and Nevada County Mine Talk, two local blog sites. Mr. Pelton uses both these sites to publish anti-Emgold and anti-Idaho-Maryland Project articles. Like many anti-mining activists, little of what he writes is based on fact, just opinion and “the sky is falling” conjecture.

    Mr. Pelton's common theme is to simply manipulate and distort the facts and use statements out of context to try to “spin” information and try to get the uninformed public to support Claim-GV's anti-mining agenda. Note that factual information on the Idaho-Maryland Project can be found at and"

    Now I understand this is just Mr. Watkinson's opinion but after reading the lenghty diatribes of Mr. Pelton I can see why Mr. Watkinson would say this. The sources was a Op-Ed in the Union Newspaper on September 13, 2011.

  6. "I guess I must have intimidated him into silence."

    You'll have to forgive me for not seeing where your arguments were the least bit intimidating. Maybe that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

    In fact, Todd, you really do come off as childish, first by unilaterally declaring victory and then trying (unsuccessfully) to make light of the notion that people can disagree on things but still be civil to each other.

  7. Last name please.

    No Paul, I whipped you two real good. You have no clue on ho business works. Keep trying though.

  8. This thread speaks for itself. Don extends a hand in friendship and sincerely states why further discussion is sure to be fruitless and Todd engages in braggadocio. It is the modus operandi of Todd and many of his blogging buddies.

    Steve Frisch

  9. Get out the dictionary, Einstein!


  10. Oh, and thanks for the compliment. Einstein was almost as smart as I am though. LOL.

  11. Hey, I might not know "ho business works" (or maybe I do ... you'll never really know, will you?) but here's what I know about you:

    No matter how much factual evidence someone shows you that contradicts an assertion you've made, you'll figure out how to ignore it and claim the facts are biased (you'll use the words "dumb", "socialist" or "liberal").

    What that basically says about you is that your opinions, when they are based on incorrect data, are worthless. You're certainly free to feel entitled to them, but nobody needs to take you seriously, and I promise you they don't.

    I'm sure there are things you're right about, occasionally. Supply-side/trickle-down/voodoo economics is not one of those things.

    And you shouldn't take the Einstein reference as a compliment. That was meant to be irony.

    Scientists recently discovered what may actually be tachyons. If Einstein were alive today, he'd read all about that and try to understand whether the special theory of relativity needed to be revised. He wouldn't put his thumb to his nose and wave his fingers at everybody who had actually done their research.

    Cue two-sentence retort ... now!

  12. Actually, I have to deal with liberals like you all the time. Your opinions are becoming like the dinosaurs since all you believe in about life and economics has proven to be bogus and uneducated. You are also cowards. You don't even place your true full name here as I asked so your opinion is worthless. I have many friends in the community and all over who contact me all the time to tell me they appreciate me taking the arrows the liberals sling. They are business people mainly who agree with me and if they were public, you libs start screaming boycott, so they don't post. You simply have no clue how we all laugh at your ilk and remark how dumb can these liberals be to think they believe their tripe. But, keep trying, you really come across as most liberals do, arrogant and full of it.

    Liberals demeaning response is awaiting. What a hoot!


Real name thank you.