I have been following the issue for a long time. We who have been involved in elections know the system can be gamed to sway elections towards lefty candidate victories. Since way before Al Franken's theft of the Senate seat in Minnesota, we had Tammany Hall in New York all the way through to the City of Bell in California. The theft of the governorship in Washington State a few years ago was also accomplished with the votes of felons and illegals according to some reports. But with all of these thefts, mostly if not all, left from the right, it is truly hard to prosecute. There seems a great reluctance to investigate the charges of voter fraud and less to follow through by local officials.
So HERE is the article on the Florida victory and if you read it fully you may ask yourself why the "voting tights" groups are so adamant about stopping these purges of dead and illegal voters. Why is it such a terrible thing to purge? My guess is they know something the rest of us are now finding out and it is there are a lot of illegal votes cast for their candidates. In the closely divided nation of America, politically, every vote could put your candidate over the 50% victory number. The stakes are very high.
In 2000 the Bush v Gore decision on the Al Gore attempt to cherry pick votes from a few counties he had won the majority in was tossed by the US Supreme Court. A stacked Florida Supreme Court was so corrupt in allowing the cherry picking that America got a first hand look at how valuable voting has become and how a few votes can really make the difference. The SCOTUS said the Gore campaign and the Florida Supreme's had to count all counties votes, not just the one's Gore hoped to pick up more democrat votes. As we all know now, the recounts done by the New York Times and other lamestream media mouthpieces for the democrat party showed to their chagrin that Bush truly won, fair and square.
The point about victory does not escape both parties though. If Gore had been allowed to cherry pick and the Elections official in the "butterfly vote" county (a democrat official by the way) were allowed to do their dirty deeds, we would have had eight years of total misery under a pre-Obama type leader. Gore is a train wreck as we have seen and America would be really over the edge if those electoral votes had become his. As it is, America had a good economic run even with 9/11 until the democrats took Congress in 2006.
So Florida gets a victory for the truth, and the rest of the country may be able to purge the voter rolls of illegal voters. A huge victory. Along with a requirement for a picture ID to be presented at the polling place, and America's elections can be once again deemed honest (absentee voting is next for scrutiny) . Perhaps these voters rights groups should support the legal voters rights rather than the shadow voters? Probably not. There is too much money to be made by these groups in supporting some kind of bogus claim for "rights". To claim a person is disadvantaged by being required to present a 10 dollar photo ID is ludicrous. America is the richest country on the planet and these people can't get a government issued photo ID?
America is the last best hope for the planet regarding the sanctity of our individual vote. We see the results of bogus elections in banana republics across the globe. Making our votes count should be a priority here, not some wedge issue democrats dream up to mask illegality. Do you want a illegal vote to cancel out yours? I don't. So clean those voter rolls and show me your ID at the polls. That is all we ask.
If you recount all the votes Gore wins. What we had was a judicial coup d'etat.
ReplyDelete"Editor’s Note: Six years ago on another Veterans Day holiday, eight news organizations published the findings of their unofficial recount of Florida’s disputed ballots. The recount had discovered that Al Gore would have won the decisive Florida election if all legally cast votes were counted."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/111207a.html
Clarence Thomas should be impeached for casting a vote when an obvious conflict of interest was in place. His wife was making 6 figures trying to elect George W Bush and doling out jobs in his administration.
"The wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas said today that she was working at a conservative research group gathering r�sum�s for appointments in a possible Bush administration but that she saw no conflict between her job and her husband's deliberations on a case that could decide the presidency."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/121200-02.htm
Wrong BenE, the election is about Electoral votes and Bush won fair and square. You liberals show no critical thinking regarding the facts in Florida.
DeleteThe electoral votes of FL put the Bush campaign over the top and would have done the same for Gore. Gore wins Florida if all the votes were counted, period. In America we don't have voter fraud but we do have election fraud big time. The fact the election was even close enough to steal with the clown Bush running for the republican party tells us how poorly the Gore campaign was run.
DeleteWith Al Gore winning, as he legally did, we for sure do not have the Iraq War, and we save at least a couple trillion dollars in insane US spending.
DeleteBush won, get over it.
DeleteNo, actually ever serious analyst on that election showed that Gore won, but the Court shut off a proper accounting of FL votes. Bush became President, yes.
DeleteWrong again Robert. It was proven in actual votes cast that Bush won Florida. Even the New York Times paid for the count if you don't recall. So, try harder in these obfuscations of the truth.
DeleteYour opinion is the same as any other right winger. Thats fine, but the fact is that its an opinion only.
DeleteBo Robert, your opinion is an opinion as are most liberals. Mine is fact.
DeleteThe Fact is that if the Gore campaign insisted on an all-votes count, he wins the most votes in FL. That was concluded by the post-election commission. Gore campaign did not, and they lost in the Supreme Court.
DeleteNo, Gore cherry picked two counties and Bush said all counties. Wow! Bush won, and even the NYT gave up the ghost and admitted Bush won.You just don't have a clue about the truth do you? It appears you have not mastered the search engines of the internet. My goodness, I just have to keep smacking you down on the fibs you poet.
DeleteNope. The NYT was only one of many involved in analyzing the results. Under the lenient standards of counting votes, Gore wins according to the primary media consortium who did the analysis. And this had been the standard way of counting votes prior to 2000, so as to reduce disinfranchisement- always err on the side of counting all the votes and the intent. Bush won in the courts, and the sad result is that we are left the major deficit and fiscal problems we see today. Tax breaks while waging 2 wars..its criminal.
DeleteNo Robert. Bush won and it was proved by the NYT and the consortium of sore loser lamestream media. You are simply wrong but I understand your fantasy about Al Gore.
DeleteFor the record I voted for Nader in Colorado. Here is the dirty little secret Democratic Party leadership doesn't want people to know about the 2000 FL vote. Over 200,000 Democrats voted for George W Bush. The D's put out a multimillion dollar propaganda blitz blaming Nader for the results instead of fighting for the people and getting all the votes recounted, typical spineless behavior from a triangulating party. The fact is FL was won by Gore. If Gore wins his home state of TN or Clinton's home state of AR Gore wins the election, the fact is Gore ran one of the worst big two presidential campaigns I have ever seen. Here is a perfect response of Nader to a democratic party supporter.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzxIxXj5K_M
Regarding Nader. Thank you Ralph for Peroting Gore. America was saved!
DeleteSaved? Thats funny. Bush locked in those trillions in wasted debt due to the lies leading into the Iraq War, at the same time locking in unnecessary and ineffective tax cuts. Oh yeah, some savings-lol! We were saved so much that any mention of Bush and his legacy is like bug spray to Mitt Romney!
DeleteNow that's funny!
DeleteHave we ever seen a former two-term president seemingly locked away in a federal detention center until the first Wednesday in November? It may be the first time.
DeleteBush won Florida as I stated in my post. The lamestreams sent in hundreds of their people to count and recount and in the end they concluded Bush won.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Gore. You would have accepted him if he had truly won by 57 votes in Florida wouldn't you BenE? Of course you would. Gore's campaign was a true democrat crapfest campaign and all those smart liberals were defeated. Please answer my query on the Florida Supreme's allowing only a few counties to be recounted if you dare. Equal protection under the law was toast with them in my view. I still recall Gore in one of the debates, getting into Bush's space and Bush giving him that look and shrug. That was then end of Gore, great theater.
Personally and for many people I know and respect, America was very prosperous until the democrats took Congress in 2006. Then it all started rapidly down hill.
Your query is empty, is that good enough. In America all votes should count not just the ones that might help one of the duopoly over the other. Gore would have been fine with me, especially in hindsight. The Bush administration was the worst administration in living memory and put the speed in overdrive for the rapid decline of the United States of America.
ReplyDeleteNo BenE the country was doing just fine until Pelosi/Reid won a majority in 2006. Then they drove our country into the ground. Then Obama drove a stake in our hearts. The worst Presidency was Millard Fillmore, but even he was better than Obama.
DeleteDo you know what living memory means?
ReplyDeleteNo, tell us BenE, we are waiting breathlessly.
DeleteI will let you actually research something on your own for once. Did you ever hear Fillmore speak?
DeleteNot Mallard BenE, Millard. Go research it yourself.
DeleteTodd,
DeleteYou're a trip. What does Mallard or Millard have to do with my comment? Did you see President Fillmore speak?
You are a trip BenE. Have you heard Fillmore speak?
DeleteTodd,
DeleteNo I have not and neither has anyone alive, which means President Fillmore doesn't fit into the category of living memory.
Please point to the comment you say I said "living memory"
DeleteHere you go big guy, don't worry I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology.
DeleteBen EmeryJuly 15, 2012 8:31 AM
Your query is empty, is that good enough. In America all votes should count not just the ones that might help one of the duopoly over the other. Gore would have been fine with me, especially in hindsight. The Bush administration was the worst administration in living memory and put the speed in overdrive for the rapid decline of the United States of America.
You said I said it and you proved I didn't but you did. Amazing.
DeleteHere we go. You followed my July 15, 2012 8:31 AM with "The worst Presidency was Millard Fillmore, but even he was better than Obama." I
DeleteI said living memory and you gave an example of someone who is not in living memory as being a worse president. I then asked do you know what living memory means and you deflected as usual.
My "living memory" about Presidents is apparently not the same as yours. You need to take a breath.
DeleteTodd,
DeleteIt is an idiom that has a meaning not just what you want it to mean.
in/within living memory
"events or situations in living memory can be remembered by people who are alive now"
in living memory also within living memory
"able to be remembered by people who are alive now"
Ben are you dense man? You sated it I did not. For goodness sakes you are arguing with yourself.
DeleteOK Ben,,, Do explain why LIBS favor illegal voting( hate voter ID)? They push for felons to retain the ability to vote.
ReplyDeleteWe need IDs for just about everything in our daily lives. Somehow that all changes on election day. LIBS fear a true and fair election, or they wouldn't be putting up such a fuss over cleaning the voter roles.
I take you back to Nixon and JFK. Nixon on the news of his lose to JFK : "They stole it fair and square". Remember that old timer? How many cemeteries help win that election?
Now with "O", Many a person ( LIB) are behind bars for voter and election fraud from sea to shining sea. In a state or two, "O" shouldn't have even been on the ballot due to insufficient votes. But some LIBs took care of that little problem.
These are all known facts. It's not my fault that LIB news didn't give them the attention they deserved. Why haven't these been investigated you might ask? Issa has his hands full when it comes to dirty LIBS in politics. Take a number and wait in line.
Walt, all good points but I think BenE is licking his lips at the 12 million illegals being courted by the democrats to somehow get them in the voting booth. There can be no other reason.
DeleteWalt,
DeleteI don't believe much of what you say are known facts and in fact are the exact opposite of known facts. The Bush administration spent tens of millions of dollars and five years trying to find voter fraud and they came up with 0.01%. Remember all those US district attorney who got fired under the Bush administration. They were fired because they were unwilling to bring charges they lost their jobs.
Here is an excerpt
"But Iglesias contended he'd been pressured by New Mexico Republicans Sen. Pete Domenici and Rep. Heather Wilson to speed up an indictment against local Democrats before the 2006 congressional election. While both lawmakers acknowledged calling Iglesias to ask about the case, they've denied pressuring him improperly.
Justice Department investigators found evidence to conclude that Iglesias was fired because Domenici and other Republican Party activists complained to the White House about his handling of the corruption case and separate voter fraud allegations."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/09/29/v-print/53255/prosecutor-to-probe-role-of-politics.html
That's all you come up with Ben? Give me a break. Just another. " never mind that,,, LOOK over here.. NOT there...."
DeleteMay I direct your attention to this? http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/democrats-arrested-andor-convicted-of-voter-fraud/
The address speaks for itself. Naaaa LIBS don't commit voter fraud..
Just a quick search of " voter fraud convictions" turns up plenty.
So DO tell us again how Progressives are as pure as the wind driven snow.
I will also say Conservatives have been caught also. But nowhere near the prevalence of people with a "D" next to their name.
Funny how you ignore the voter ID issue altogether.
But keep hammering away at the good ol' Bush Gore tirade.
GOD help us if Gore had won. We would all be eating trail mix, and bowing to windmills as our new savior today.
Libs don't favor illegal voting Libs favor everyone eligible to vote actually being able to vote and having their votes counted. Check out this great interview between Ralph Nader and Andrew Napolitano.
Deleteminute 5:45 addresses the Supreme Court coup
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/293848-1
Walt,
DeleteI would love for you to find nationwide convictions of voter fraud with intent of flipping an election, in the last decade. The few voter fraud cases there are the vast majority of them are accidental voting outside of a persons precinct or voting while a felon in some states.
BenE, I have listed three for you in the post. Go do some study on them and get back to Walt and I.
DeleteBen. I guess you didn't even bother to go to the web site I supplied.
DeleteIf you had, your post might be a little differant.
Accidental voting?? LOL. Forget that it's LIBS that have the title of "vote early,, and often."? No accountability, Heck, dogs and cats are eligible voters in Liberals eyes.
Walt,
DeleteI know of national studies and investigations on voter fraud and the numbers always come back at a fraction of one percent, which makes it a non issue. I went to your link and what I saw is very partisan propaganda. 1) Add up all of the cited arrests and charges you might get a hundredth of one percent of votes cast. Did you notice none of the headlines said convictions? I can give you one example of election fraud that purged 57,000 voters off the rolls which most definitely flipped an election. A couple dozen nationally or tens of thousands in one state, I won this hand and unfortunately we all lose because of it.
Here are two articles proving my point
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all
The retrial of former Troy, N.Y., City Councilman Michael LoPorto on ballot fraud charges has revealed detailed testimony about the casting and soliciting of absentee ballots.
DeleteLoPorto was charged with 22 counts of second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument for his role in an alleged Democratic Party attempt to steal a city council primary victory in 2009, according to the Times Union.
Well now. First downplay voter fraud, then bark up the tree about the Bush Gore conspiracy, then flat out ignore the history ( even been on the History channel)of the JFK/Nixon election. LOL!
Voter fraud has really been on the upswing these last three years.
It took a republican House to expose the vermin's nest. We saw how great a job Holder did about it.
ID to vote has been upheld by SCOTUS. But as usual when LIBS don't want to follow a law or provision of one, they don't. They are plenty of examples that have been in the press about that. From immigration, to welfare, to guns going to drug cartels.
Walt,
DeleteI didn't downplay anything. Investigations have been held and the number of voter fraud convictions, especially those with intent to flip an election are a non issue. More people are struck by lightning that commit voter fraud. I am not saying it isn't wrong but to try to equate less than two dozen voter fraud cases to tens of thousands of eligible voters being stripped of their ability to vote, which is the foundation of a democratic republic, is not even in the same ball park. Not only voting but having their vote counted. Voter ID laws are in place to do one thing and one thing only, suppress the vote. I want a 100% turn out and people to vote their conscience so we can experience for the first time in American history a true representative government. According to a Gallup Poll 31% of registered voters are democratic party, 29% are republican party, and 38% are independent or non duopoly. This poll is showing the disgust of the big two from the American voter. What I suggest for anyone who cares about the future and health of our country is to leave the big two and force some major electoral and campaign finance reform.
BTW,, The latest BS to come out of Obama's pie hole,,,"look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. "
ReplyDeleteBasically,,, If it wasn't for government, you wouldn't be successful..
He can kiss my butt on the center line of Main St. Government has no claim
to my families success over the years. Hell.. I couldn't repeat what my Dad did
back in the 40's ( he made millions in today's money) Today, Government would make it impossible for me to do the same thing, the same way. Just think of the reports and studies I would have to submit. Lawyers, City, county, state, fed, inspections etc. Dad started with 50 bucks. Sure can't do that today. But HAY!! We got big government that will save us all....
Walter, you're all scattered with that brain fart there, son. Try again please.
DeleteBeen paying attention? Your " brain fart" is running down your leg.
DeleteFunny how my comment here just took a few days to hit the news, and now is the headline for days.
Walt nice smackdown! LOL!
DeleteOh yeah! LOL.
DeleteLate, but a quick comment. Todd, as usual, you make assertions and claim they are facts. Walt, your arguments are empty. Florida was a travesty and a theft, with Texas complicit. Calling Libs slime or such terms all the time does nothing to add substance to your opinions. Yhe highly respected, non partisan Brennan Institute in NYC has dismissed voter fraud as a problem; only Republican states are enacting these laws, blatant attempts to purge unlikely GOP voters.
ReplyDeleteWhile I have many differing opinions with Ben, one being Nader's role in the election, his critical thinking skills, and knowledge of proper scholership methodology, as are mine, are quantum leaps above anything demonstrated in vapid, attack opinions expressed here. I won't bother to provide proof, because will just rely on his fallback positions--bloviater, what a hoot. Bush is finally doing something good for the country, hiding in Crawford and not making ruinous edicts weaking the U.S.A.
EdP, as usual you provide nothing new to the debate. I am sad that your level of education about the 2000 election is so small and twisted. You are simply a partisan hack without anything proof to back up your bloviating.
ReplyDeleteYou come here and complain we call liberals a term you dislike and then call us nasty personal names. I think the ganga is getting to your cognitive skills. When you do some research with an open mid (if possible) you will see we are correct and you are not.
It took a day or two, and a LIB got his hat handed to him when
ReplyDeletenot taking my comment ( above) seriously. ( "O"s attack on people and business)
I'm sorry if I happen to find news, days before it hits the headlines. It seems to work in my favor more times than not. I make a post, some LIB attacks it without even looking, and now crow is on the menu once again.
OK Rob,, Your order is up. You should be passing feathers for a week.
" Other people" ( I.E. Government) had nothing to do ( except throw up hindrances) with our families success.
Anyone who states " It's Government that allows you to ________" has been sucked into the Marxist mind set. Free enterprise ( remember that term?) is long gone in most respects, thanks to Progressivism. It sure sucks to have to get a permit or a licence( business) just to be self sustainable.
Walt, you have the Bob breathless!
DeleteLOL! We're with ya, Walt!
ReplyDeletedum..dee..dum.
That's the best you can come back with?
DeleteThe LOL is on you.
Go change your Huggies. I don't think the Gov has a program for someone to do that for ya', so your on your own for that shovel ready job.
We're laughing with you, Walt, really- we are!
DeleteWe? You have a mouse in your pocket? Bob.
DeleteYou know that crazy Uncle many people have, who sits and watches Fox News all day, and then recites what he hears when guests come calling?
DeleteWalt!
No, Walt digs holes and trenches and clears land. I think you may be describing what you do all day Robert. Except you watch MSNBC and Jerry Springer (the latest to endorse Obama).
DeleteTodd: My intention was merely to let you know, as a fact checker who occassionally checks in here, that you got it wrong again and that I didn't intend to contribute evidence to the debate because I know it would be useless and I was in a big hurry. I won't bother to explain why because facts simply don't matter to you as is evident in what you write. And, BTW, I didn't call you any nasty names. Saying I did, in my post, illustrates how you do not seem to grasp what has been written.
ReplyDeleteTo say both Ben and I have higher critical thinking skills than you--a charge you first said I lacked long ago--is not name calling.
So, for now, I'll leave you guys to yourselves.
Golly EdP, you travel over criticizing me for what you say are a lack f facts and then have no facts. What a hoot. I think your critical skills need some updating.
ReplyDeletePortage County veteran, 86, doesn't vote after VA identification card rejected at polls
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/03/portage_county_veteran_86_turn.html
96-year-old Chattanooga resident denied voting ID
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/oct/05/marriage-certificate-required-bureaucrat-tells/
Maureen Russo a 40 year registered US Citizen Voter that was purged from the voting rolls
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/1/justice_department_orders_florida_to_stop
I agree BenE, the government makes a lot of mistakes and screws over a lot of people. Thanks for agreeing with us on the right.
DeleteThe policies of those who control our government are what you speak of. I don't mad bad legislation if it was passed with good intentions but when legislation is written to benefit those with the most I think that is absolutely wrong.
ReplyDeleteVoter ID Laws were written and pushed by ALEC an exclusive conservative and corporate or corporatist model legislative/ lobby group.
http://www.alternet.org/election2012/155307/alec%27s_voter_id_laws_work_to_overturn_hundreds_of_years_of_progressive_moves_to_broaden_democracy_
ALEC? Yikes, I didn't know you were a conspiracy nut BenE. No, ALEC was simply a consortium of private people who were like minded, sort of like the Green Party or the Eco Consortium. I bet you have no problems with the monster consortium of "global warming" scientists do you? They have caused over a hundred billion dollars of tax money to be directed to their hoax via legislation and even invented "carbon credits" as a new currency..
ReplyDeleteThe government is made up of humans BenE. Sometimes, they come together to do something that benefits the folks, you know, build a bridge or a highway, but most of the time they pass a law to restrict your individual rights. That is the history of man, and fortunately, this country of ours started out in the very opposite of history and placed into the Founding documents our individual protections and made government subservient to we the people. That is constantly under attack by the left. We on the right are the one's trying to protect the rights of the people.
What conspiracy theory? The voter ID legislation in a couple dozen states can be linked directly to ALEC. So you approve of lobbyists writing legislation for us to live under? What happened the consent of the governed?
ReplyDeleteSo "ALEC"is responsible eh? No one or no oher group or political party had or has any concern about votyer fraus? Amazing.
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDeleteDo you approve of the practice of special interest groups, who are unaccountable to the people, writing our future laws? I guess you cannot keep a train of thought on the issue of voter fraud/ voter id laws.
1) There is no voter fraud of any serious consequence going on in the US- extensive investigations have found voter fraud consists of 0.001 of 1% of votes cast.
2) ALEC uses propaganda to sell the fear of voter fraud so they can have supporters of their voter suppression legislation
3) Suppressing voters is the best way to keep the status quo, thus secure the wealth and power of a small few.