First the population numbers
July 1, 1950 population 152,271,417
GDP 273,000,000,000 or 273 billion dollars
Present Day, Estimated population 310,000,000
GDP 15,601,000,000,000 or 15.6 Trillion dollars
The output of our economy went up 57 times since my birth and the population only doubled! American productivity is unmatched over the last 62 years.
Then I looked at Federal spending. And then a per capita to see where the heck all the money goes. It is truly simple to see why our country is now in the pickle it is.
1950 Federal budget receipts were 39 billion and the outlay was 42 billion. A deficit of 3 billion. The per capita receipts were about 256 dollars and the expenditures a bit more than that.
Today the per capita receipts are approximately $7,964 and the expenditures are $12,243.
So the receipts grew from 39 billion to 2.47 trillion in 62 years which is what a 63 times increase! And when you figure the debt it is on third more than that! Is it any wonder the government is in every aspect of our lives, personal and business?
I am not really a numbers man but I know one thing about the government. If the money is not there, there is no beast to tame. When cold hard facts are shown to the American people, and maybe they need to be presented more sexy I suppose to get their interest, then I am confident they will see how they are being hosed.
Do we as a people want that much government? In my lifetime of 62 years, the people have done their best to stay in front of the government spending and wild taxation. But we see all around us the lack of control in raising and spending the people's hard earned money (we just can't make enough). How much is enough? Did wages for the average Joe and Jenny go up 6300 percent? Heck no. But the reason we see this incredible growth of government and its thirst for our money is simply. POWER! The more they take from you the less independence you have. They take so much you eventually have to go ask them (beg and fill out forms ad nauseum) for some money back. The culture of takers was made and created by some really sneaky people over many years.
As long as American let these people take your money, they will continue to take it. We are now supposed to feel guilty if we don't knuckle under to the democrats quest to remove more from our pockets. How will all the programs these people have created survive if the people don't pony up just a little bit more? They somehow convince enough dummies to do it though and as we can see it is never enough.
If the American people were taught something about economics and where their money goes perhaps things would change. The beast is so huge (and these are just federal dollars, add state and local and special districts) it may take a a whole new kind of person in Washington DC to bring sanity to the process. If not, we are all going to end up as serfs, and I don't mean the kind of water hitting the shores.
Todd,
ReplyDeleteFrom 1789 - 1980 the debt was around $900 billion and much of that was from Vietnam. Reagan added $3 trillion, Bush I $1.5 trillion, Clinton $1.5 trillion, Bush II $6 trillion, and Obama (?).
The defense budget has tripled in a dozen years.
Interesting numbers but off my posts point. The growth of domestic government at all levels has wrecked the place. One study I saw says the unfunded liabilities in America are t 200 TRILLION! The military is a necessary part of the Constitution. Without a strong military all the rest can vanish quite quickly.
DeleteHow many aircraft carriers, subs, warships and planes do you need to fight bands of terrorism in the world? Unless you see Iran massing at the Canadian border, or China steaming cross the Ocean blue to attack Hawaii.
DeleteYeah, your type would be speaking German and/or Russian if we did not have a strong defense. Amazing ignorance.
DeleteOh yeah, let's analyze the current military budget through the lens of world conflict 70+ years ago. Awesome. Is that not a perfect example of your cognitive skills? LOL. What- do we need to get the Brooklyn Navy Yard back and running?
DeleteYou have become a cartoon Robert. If you have ideas on the size and scope of the military, lay it out. It appears all you want to do is be a cartoon though. I think your skills in the issues is very limited.
DeleteThe following statement is cartoonish. Obvious you are projecting Todd.
Delete"Your type would be speaking German and/or Russian if we did not have a strong defense. Amazing ignorance".
OK, hows about we keep a fighting force to defend primarily against terrorism. We should immediately cut MOST (not all) of the weapons, systems and war groups designed for Cold War type conflicts. It will save hundreds of billions over the next few years, and help avoid devastating cuts to health care programs and the safety net for our oldest and poorest Citizens. Better yet, just follow the ideas of your Party's best spokesman on this subject, Ron Paul.
To remove corruption from politics we need to remove money. Less money for politicians to dish out, less corruption (see Solyndra)
ReplyDeleteRight on the mark!
DeleteIf that crook Adelson is indicted shortly, that would certainly help.
DeleteIf he is a crook then I agree. He can serve his time with Obama's pal and home salesman extraordinaire, Tony Resco.
DeleteWhat happened from the 1980's to today that makes it unsustainable? Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and corporations creating the incentive to keep capital instead of reinvesting it back into companies and employees. Once money was accumulated then the buying off the government took place where our entire government is a bottomless pit for special interests to suck the treasury dry and then some. The other big issue that is connected with accumulated wealth in big business has been Free Trade Agreements and the result of it is our trade deficit $2 billion a day. In 1980 the US was the worlds largest exporter of finished goods and largest importer of raw material and today we have inverted those statistics.
ReplyDeleteI suggest you go study the OMB numbers and then get back to the thread. The rich? The middle class was making it just fine as we see the GDP raising so far in my lifetime. But, government swipes it and it comes from the middle class folks on Main Street. I would have hoped you would get a clue about how bizarre your points are but I guess not.
DeleteCome on, every one who's ever studied it knows that the "swiping" came from the monied-elites,CEOS and Wall Street- at the expense of the middle/working class over the last 3 decades. The statistics on wealth disparity, wealth accumulation, and all the related trends during that time do not lie. If you really believe these are the job creators and deserve their status- come out and stick with that line. But lets not pretend the govt. is who stole the wealth. Thats weak, really weak.
Deleteow, I am surprised by your ignorance Robert. Your momma had to go to work and she put you in daycare just so she and your dad could pay the tax bill. But as they say, ignorance id bliss.
DeleteI give you Exhibit A above -1:58! Great example of Ed's very astute observations about the intellectual level of your discourse.
DeleteI simply am too smart for you and you just don't understand. What a hoot!
DeleteI think you need to re-educate and then come back when your intellect can match up.
Now THAT is funny!
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDeleteProductivity has gone up dramatically but wages for average workers have gone nowhere. Cost of living has gone up dramatically but wages for average workers have gone no where. Now if we talk about CEO's in 1980 it was roughly 40 to 1 ratio CEO pay over their average employee wages. In 2010 that ratio has reached 500 to 1. The incentives have changed, that's it.
I could care less what a private company CEO makes. This is a free country. Well at least for a little longer. I would suggest the problems are government created and liberal created. A nanny state, trial lawyers suing everything and everyone, laws made by court cases rather than legislatures. The problem is solved on wages if you would get the yoke of government off the throats of all Americans. You complain and want more government I don't.
DeleteYou cannot have a healthy economy without a strong middle class. Middle class has been sunk for some time now, and we cannot get back to 5% unemployment for at least a generation. All due to what was started under Reagan- 30+ years ago. The "strong economy" we tried under Bush was built on sticks of tax breaks and even more coddling to the wealthy, and all the bubble-related financial and real estate shenanigans- it was all an ILLUSION during the decade.
DeleteYou better damn well care the ratio of CEO pay to workers, and the plight of the middle class- if you want to ever see the USA in a strong position again.
The dot com bubble was the first one I recall where we had a nationwide wakeup about that kind of stuff. I think a few thousand people became millionaires and a few more billionaires and all that under Clinton. He and a bone heads called Barney and another called Dodd then drove a nail in the chest of millions of middle class people. So I agree Robert, the liberals have trashed the middle class and Main Street businesses. Get the government out of the everyday lives of he middle class and let mom (or to be PC, dad) be with the kids rather than being forced to work to pay their taxes. BTW you work till June I think to pay the taxes shifted over to the welfare queens.
DeleteAh, the "welfare queens" are responsible for the straights our finances are in. I see. Can you further describe these queens to me? Not sure I have a good visual.
DeleteSure, we in California have 33% of the nations welfare queens. Also, a recent nonpartisan study was released which stated illegal immigrants here over twenty years are at a 50% welfare recipient level. I hops you like where your taxmoney goes since you seem to be so smug.
DeleteWelfare queens = your code word for black single parents. You, me and 100 millions Americans know that. Racist much?
DeleteYour solution to illegals in California please--? Talk is cheap.
DeleteNo Robert, you are the racist not me. More whites are on welfare anyway. Your code word are strictly between your ears. But you libs never disappoint.
DeleteIllegals need to get in the legal line.
As predicted, no ideas, no solutions for the problem of illegal immigration. Cannot question those job creators who hire them by the thousands, right? No regulations! No restrictions!
DeleteHows about Self-Deportation? LOL. Willard actually proposed that at one time- until he found out his advisor was tricked by a Gray Davis-era parody.
You apparently have no use for the laws so it is fruitless taking to such lawless people. I suggest you go down to the border and talk them back across the border.
DeleteOne more thing. I learned to keep any responses short because you liberals have a short attention span. You also never answer our questions so when you do you may get some in return.
You constant whining is very boring.
I believe the situation you find yourself in with this argument is called being BOXED-IN.
DeleteBest of luck in your solutions for illegal immigration!
Robert, I would say the truth is on my side but you liberals sure do stick together, even when you are blatantly wrong. What a hoot!
DeleteWhat truth? You have no answers on this subject of illegal immigration, so there is no proposition to judge. I would blame the agri-business and other assorted corporate interests for a large hand in creating the problem. Thats not truthful? LOL. Um, it is- under any objective measure. Except maybe Caveman.
DeleteI already responded to you so you are simply obfuscating. Illegals should get in the legal line is what I said. Is that a bit to difficult for you?
DeleteHey, I found the spokesman for Republican and right wing immigration policy! The Tea Party darling speaks! Very, very compassionate stuff. Family values and such..
Deletehttp://news.yahoo.com/joe-plumber-unfiltered-build-damn-fence-start-shooting-160930403--abc-news-politics.html
What is your position Robert? I bet you have none you can articulate. Just a cartoon.
Delete-A real and robust guest worker program
Delete-A Path to Residency for current illegals
-A Back of the line Path to Citizenship
and STOP the inhumane mass deportations of immigrant families. Obama has failed miserably here, in his attempt to show he's tough on immigration.
Well hell, we have some agreement.
DeleteThen what's up with your party's platform? No one, NO ONE of any stature would dare talk about those points. If they did, Ann Coulter would be on Fox that night screaming and foamenting. Tea People have any reasonable Repubs duct-taped and caged.
DeleteWell Robert, I think you need to supply me with the link to the current platform since in my review the best I can come up with is the 2008 one. My recollection is the platform is in the process of being done for the convention so if you have an advanced copy, put it here. Here is a part of the platform from 2008 on immigration that may assuage your concerns.
Delete"Our commitment to the rule of law means smarter enforcement at the workplace, against illegal workers and lawbreaking employers alike, along with those who practice identity theft and traffic in fraudulent documents."
The full link is http://whitehouse12.com/republican-party-platform/
Perhaps you were a little to anxious to hang the party?
Let me help you out here- there is none, hasn't been, and won't be for many years, any type of Republican platform on meaningful immigration reform. As long as Tea People hold sway, will never happen.
DeleteAll we see is references to Marco Rubio, Marco Rubio, Marco Rubio, followed by hateful and ignorant quotes from Republicans like Congressional candidate (believe it or not!) Joe the Plumber, who wants to install sniper positions at various intervals in a high 2000 mile long fence, ready to "shoot to kill." What a pathetic symbol for a supposed major political party.
Robert, you just can't answer because you simply don't know what you are talking about. The Platform link from 2008 was supplied, you choose not to read it after making a statement there was none. You are just lazy and stuck in a mindset which never is open to change. The GOP Platform is being done as we speak as I have pointed out yet you deny it. Is that some sort of mental condition? Deny something that is right there?
DeleteIf you are illegal, get in the legal line.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Delete2008 is not 2012. No one cares about the Pre-Tea People Era of Republican platforms.
DeleteThere will be no comprehensive immigration reform policy of 2012 in the Republican platform. 100% guaranteed. In spite of Marco Rubio and all those Cuban concerns for Mexican immigration...lol.
It appears to me you have little logic on the analysis of the platform. Why don't you read it, go to the link and then return.
DeleteWaiting on the 2012 Platform to see the Republican immigration policy. The facts would dictate that the Repubs are nothing like they were in 2008. Do you not understand?
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDeleteThat is why you are a corporatist and advocate a new version of Feudalism. We now what your version of economics brings us, its has been repeated many times in US history. Does the Robber Baron era ring a bell? The policies I advocate were tried as well and it created the largest and strongest middle class in world history. Money that used to be reinvested into growing company, R & D, benefits, and wages now goes into the pockets of small few who invest in making more money for themselves through political bribes.
BenE I think you have been in the garden sun too long. I am an American who believes in free enterprise. You don't so what should we call you? A socialist? A communist? You see BenE, you seem to think a corporation is some amorphous thing but it is made up of people. It has employees, employers, CEO's and stockholders (your neighbors 401K is probably in there somewhere). There are hundreds of thousands of rules controlling them. You simply have to have a straw man because your ideas (and I am still not sure what they are) are simply anti-Constitutional.
DeleteCorporate capitalism has failed the middle class, and therefore the healthy American economy. No one, except trickle-down right wingers, are dumb enough to believe we need more de-regulation across the board to make things right. Wall Street/banking 2008? Remember that fiasco?
DeleteA corporation is a fictional entity. It is invented and the question you need to ask yourself is; are we here to serve the corporations or are they here to serve the people? "We The People" are supposed to be the government creating, overseeing, and enforcing the rules of our economy not the other way around.
DeleteCorporations have no soul to save or body to incarcerate. Limited liability for large corporations have become the cost of doing business since it is going to be a fine/ settlement they have to pay not prison time or death.
Here is a perfect example of private industry controlling oversight agencies, it is called capturing. But you're more than likely a person who supports tort-reform, which makes it much easier for companies to factor in the cost of killing people into their Cost Benefit Analysis.
http://www.pradaxa-lawsuits.org/
Corporate capitalism has failed? Let me see, hmmm. 80% of the jobs are created by small business and most of them are corporations. I guess it is true you liberals don't know anything about economics and laws. Each statement you lovelies make shows us all your ignorance.
DeleteThe demise of the economy is the result of government interference and the nanny state created and maintained by liberals. You all need to go smack your selves because you and your lefty ilk are the problem. We on the right have the solutions and the drive to keep the country free.
BenE, a corporation is a fictitious entity? So, I guess you buy their fictitious products eh? A corporation is there to sell something or create or manufacture something then if they survive and make a profit, they can give their shareholders (people) a dividend. I am shaking my head at your ignorance about the laws and the economics of the planet. My God man, do some homework. Or call and talk to EdP, he is the smartest guy here he says.
DeleteTodd,
DeleteWhy do you and those who share your ideology try and conflate large (C)corporations and small business(S)corporations in your arguments. I am not worried about Cirino's influencing federal or state law by bribing government officials through their lobbyist. But McDonald's on the other hand I do worry about, especially as a member of ALEC until 2012. It doesn't fit into your neat but very unrealistic version of how the world should operate so my guess is you will shrug this comment off like usual.
My little world view? BenE, your view isn't even popular in Albania. My view is universal. All corporations are governed the same regarding their formation under the government rules. You have a small minute view of the planet. There is no difference in the McDonalds and the now defunct, apparently, Tanglewood Forest in Nevada City. McDonalds is huge and employees hundreds of thousands of people all around the planet. When you liberals want them to stop including a toy in their Happy Meals, you go pass a law. Why shouldn't they have the right to fight that? You just don't understand the law, corporations and money. What about those middle class people making the McDonald's toy?
DeleteYou mean those poor Chinese workers making those McDonald's toys. Not sure I would call the workers in those sweat shops "middle class."
DeleteYour liberal rules forced the closure of millions of American businesses and you sent them to China. Now you whine about the middle class you destroyed. Liberals are too much.
DeleteTodd,
DeleteYour lack of understanding how corporations work in the business world and their influence over our government is astonishing.
In 2010 Cirino's didn't contribute one penny to a political campaign or political party in 2010 as far as I can tell from the database. On the other hand;
McDonald's spent $1.2 lobbying our government in 2010
McDonald's Political Action Committee (PAC) spent over $500,000 in contributions in 2010. 47% to Democratic Party 52% to the Republican Party.
Do you know the difference between Sole Propietorship, LLC, S, C, Nonpublic, and Public corporations? They all have different rules/ laws they have to comply with, especially tax laws.
As for the McDonald's happy meal toy being made by middle class people, is this a joke? The people who make those toys are in oppressed third world nations who are working for sweat shop wages. It is time for you to open your eyes and change the way you think.
http://www.monitor.net/monitor/9705a/happymeal.html
You gotta love this latest line of spin, Ben. So it was all those nasty liberal rules and regulations which caused outsourcing! Oh yeah. LOL. Funny how no one has ever heard that insane line of reasoning until Willard was trying to become President- and deflect focus on his time at Bain.
DeleteRobert,
DeleteTodd suffers like many of his ideology with the idea that because they have experience running a relatively small corporation/ company they completely understand economics. Nothing could be further from the truth and the fallacy that small businesses are equivalent to big businesses in the way they operate and function in society is hilarious. A CEO of a large corporation has no idea of a vast majority of the employees who work at the company, which makes screwing with their pay and benefits much easier. Where at a small business the owner usually works in the business and interacts with their employees on a regular basis, which makes it more like a family member and employees are treated much better. Not always but the good businesses this is true. Just that alone makes all the difference in the world in the way the business conducts itself. Not all big businesses are bad but there are around a dozen or so in each industry that totally dominate it through shear size, money, and influence. This is where I agree with conservatives a bit, government gets corrupted because they have the power of creating laws/ regulations. The agreement generally ends at this point because we differ in the solution to this problem. They want less to no government and I want no private money/ gifts to our political parties or campaigns. It is because of the great corruption our government has become so big bloated and unaccountable. It has become that way because the powers that be want it that way. Socialize the external costs while privatizing the profits. What Todd doesn't connect is when the policies we advocate were in place the government was smaller, middle class was bigger, and both the upper and lower income brackets were much smaller.
You two neeed to get a room. I don't suffer fools real well and you too take the cake. It is obvious neither of you have any private enterprise backgrounds so I lose interest in defeating the unarmed. You two need some critical thinking, some private sector experience and maybe you should make a payroll. Then perhaps you can come armed better to these threads.
DeletePrivate sector, large corporate life? CHECK. For a few too many years in the 1990s that I care to remember. I saw all the games- legal and illegal, all the stuff that Ben described. My company (small private) was acquired three times, each time by a bigger behemoth with a reduction plan. Slashing, burning, closing offices, wiping out jobs and benefits, wiping out good people- people I supervised, my colleagues, some of whom wisely left on their own. Oh yeah, so I understand Todd. All too well. Strictly private sector small business now.
DeleteWhy didn't you save your company then? You could have bought the stock since it was probably a corporation. Then you could have looked out for your friends.
DeleteYour understanding of every issue you comment on is flawed by a basic inability to analyze or synthesize information or concepts that are simply beyond your intellectual reach. The points made by Ben and Robert are crucial to a discussion of a healthy America, but you, as usual miss the point and resort to the socialist, commie name calling. You are unable to support your arguments in a scholarly fashion, because that is not a skill you have and is a reason why I don't expend my valuble time in useless dialogue with you or other ideologues offering only caveman critiques to questions of high complexity.
ReplyDeleteThanks Ed. You're a gem. And a true scholar.
DeleteCaveman Critiques. I love it. Should be the name of this blog instead of the Dragon's Breath (which makes absolutely no sense).
Ah the constant critic has returned to tell us all how dumb we are and how smart he is. Boring EdP, try another [lace.
DeleteNot WE Todd, I think Ed was singling you out.
DeleteI never said you were smart Robert. But I see and read EdP and know he isn't too bright. Just a complainer.
DeleteYou guys do realize that you spent most of the day trying to make an intellectually incompetent moron understand economics right?
DeleteFrisch
Good advice Steve. This cat's responses to any form of reality-based logic is akin to Romney taking credit for Detroit's comeback. Thick as a Brick...Todd as Aqualung.
DeleteI thought I saw Todd sitting on a park bench today admiring his TSA package.
DeleteFrisch
No, Steve Frisch, I was at the recorders office looking at liens on restaurants from the IRS, State and County. How could a employer screw his/her middle class employees out of their money? That person had obviously no understanding of economics. But he/she probably has a nice house and a nice car paid for by the diversion of the employees taxes he/she withheld.
DeleteAlso, why would you insult Robert, BenE and EdP by calling them morons?
Your background is clean as the freshly fallen snow, right?
DeleteNever claimed I was pure as the driven snow Todd, and never denied to anyone that I had a hard time paying my bills at the Passage in the last 3 years. But I paid back every cent of my taxes and never screwed a singe employee. I took responsibility for my actions and paid my dues.
DeleteHow are you doing paying back those foreclosed mortgages big boy? Did the American taxpayers bail you out through your banks? Did we pay for your failed investments?
I think the point that you spend your time trying to dig up dirt on people who don't agree with you is illustrative of how much you respect your posters! Careful boys, piss these guys up and they will dig up every wart. And boy will they lie!
You are really like a 12 year old aren't you Toddy?
Frisch
Interesting. Thanks for the lead info, Steve.
DeleteSo Todd, how did you make the bank and the American taxpayers whole? Or was that just BIZNESS in Bush's America? Are you saying you were so stupid as to not recognize the massive real estate bubble-and became yet another a hapless victim of the Bush Decade?
Well Steve Frisch. Why did you think I was talking about you? Oh, that's right, you screwed your employees by not paying the money you were entrusted with to the tune of 250k or so . There was also all the liens from the state and hell, even the county. So you say you paid the taxes you your were entrusted with from the employees back then eh? Prove it. The liens are still there in the record of the county recorder ( and I found them because you did it first, thanks). So, when you speak f how dumb we are about economics I just laugh my ass off. BTW, what did you do with the employees money? A house, a car, trips? Where did it go?
DeleteMy foreclosure was published in the newspaper and then copied all over the internet by Steve Enos. I have his records too, but I have chosen not to publish them yet. Oh and there was no taxpayer money involved i my foreclosure..
No, Steve Frisch did not pay his taxes that he withheld from his hard working employees, right Steve Frisch? Or do I read those liens wrong?
Steve Frisch acts like a third grader on these blogs so it is no surprise to any of us he responds so childishly. Grow up Steve Frisch and make sure you send those taxes in to the IRS. We had to carry you for how many years? 20?
Oh an Robert, when you have a verifiable name and email, you can then the bonafide team member with Steve Frisch.
This is where a little information is a dangerous thing. Took us 8 years and 25% of our combined salaries, but we paid back every red cent, and no employee of was ever harmed in any way. I don't have to prove shyte to you Todd, and I certainly won't be intimidated by your bullying nonsense. By the way, if you did your snooping homework well you would know I do not own a home and my only car is a 9 year old Honda Civic.
DeleteBut if you are a reader of Todd's you know see exactly who and what he is.
By the way Todd, how did you make B of A and the taxpayers who bailed them out whole you frigging hypocrite?
Frisch
By the way Todd, I never looked into any of your records; you must have me confused with someone else.
DeleteFrisch
Steve Frisch, you think anyone believes you here? Maybe Robert the anonymous person. Same kind of philosophy. Anyway, you started this and when it escalated you start crying the blues. To bad, you should learn when to keep your yap shut.
DeleteYou come over here and call me names and when I don't take your bully tactics you scamper away cry and hide. So, all one needs to do to see what a hypocrite you are is go read your posts here and on Rebane and Steele's blogs.
You are simply a rent seeker and recipient of tax payers money and that is a fact jack. You spend the money and create nothing of value for the taxpayers. Where are those shovel ready jobs of yours? The millions of dollars you get could feed the hungry and give the little homeless kids a shelter. No evidence you and your SBC have ever done anything like that.
You started the research crap and all I did was check out the public record and there you were. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight Steve Frisch, you are out of your league.
Todd,
DeleteI believe Steve F.
Here is where you are very wrong. You attack people personally like you shyte don't stink. We all experience failures in our lives. Failure isn't something we should be ashamed of, not changing or never trying anything new is the behavior we shouldn't be proud of.
"It is not the critic who counts;
not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;
who strives valiantly;
who errs and comes short again and again;
who knows great enthusiasms,
the great devotions;
who spends himself in a worthy cause;
who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement,
and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly
so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
~ Theodore Roosevelt
Todd, I don't know where you got the paranoid delusion that I dug up dirt on you: you have never been important enough to me to waste that much time on. Never researched you in any way. Your comments here have been enough to demonstrate your incompetence.
DeleteBut since it came up here: did you pay back the money lost by B of A on your foreclosures? How much money was lost on the foreclosures? Did the Bush Bailout and thus the taxpayers pick up the tab? Can't seem to answer that one can you?
I am not afraid of you. You are a small, insecure bully.
Frisch
P.S. Thanks Ben......
Golly BenE, I would have never guessed a liberal would not believe a liberal. But that is OK, you two are bitds of a feather with your ridiculous ideology. Plus you both get so creative in your spelling of swear words. What not to like? If there is anything less than a set of facts and documents to review about Frisch and his liens and tax non payments, go over to the recorders and read them for yourself. He started this and I finished it. But, he could be a murdering swine and you would still stick up for him. That's is just what you liberals do.
DeleteSteve Frisch, you owed 250,000 to to the feds from the money your employees intrusted to you. Please supply us with the proof you paid it back. In the meantime, while you owed that sum for what 20 years, the taxpayers had to carry you. Did you pay interest on the money we loaned you? Where is the proof you paid back the State Franchise Tax Board and the County as ell?
DeleteRegarding my spec foreclosure, you and Enos republished the public documents so many times I am surprised you didn't memorize it. And I did no business with B of A which shows you to be a liar.
As far as bullies go, I am far from one. Anyone who enters into a conversation with you gets attacked personally. We respond and you cry a river. What a little child you are. I am a well known person for being involved in the community all my life. I have many people who like me because I am a nice fellow. Your slights are familiar though, it has been about 55 years since elementary school where your mental state resides.
I suggest you, BenE, Robert and Edp gather together ad sing kumbaya.
Todd,
DeleteI have no concern about Steve F's or your past business records, successes, or failures. You posted something about GDP and the growth of government. I filled in national debt according to Presidential administrations. Somehow you've turned it into a personal issue instead of political dialogue. Trickle Down, Free Trade, and Crony Capitalism have failed our nation along with the world. It is time to shift towards different policies.
I saw another story about another Karma Hybrid electric car going up in smoke.
ReplyDeleteSo much for "zero" emissions. A hundred grand is an expensive guilt trip.
No knowledge of a Karma hybrid. But like all evolving technology, stuff happens. I will be purchasing something in the hybrid-electric realm next model year most likely.
DeleteThat being said, aking a chance on a hybrid is still better than riding in some death- trap car like an older model Jeep Cherokee or Ford Explorer.
I have a Suburban and a Dodge Ram truck. For zipping around I have a Rendezvous from Buick. I like the monster SUV's myself.
DeleteKarma hybrid, now that's funny Walt.
Jethro Bodine didn't realize he was funny either.
DeleteGlad to see you're happy throwing away your money in retirement, especially with gas going back to $5+ bucks/gallon. Sounds like a pretty idiotic financial plan to me, Todd.
Walt,
DeleteI have a zero emission hybrid and it cost roughly $20k new and the savings on the gas has paid for itself easily. We had our 4x4 vehicle from Colorado that we no longer needed and was only getting 18mpg when fuel hit $2.50 a gallon, it was a no brainer. No guilt trip here just a more economical smarter way of transporting myself, family, and dogs. I guess the manly symbolism just isn't my cup of tea.
Todd, I won't waste my time discussing issues with you. And it is perfectly clear I, Frisch, Robert, Ben, are educated, whereas you are just opinionated and rely on name calling rather than reasoned, structured presentation of factual evidence.
ReplyDeleteMy time is too valuable to me to accomodate your demands for endless proof which you are incapable of understanding anyway. Face the music Todd, you're an guy with an I.Q. of probably around 95 to 100, failed at your chosen business, found solace in your Evangelical church, and to keep busy and maintain a sense of importance to offset your failures in life, started a blog. On that blog, you vent your frustrations, blame everyone else for your failures, call all those who dare to challenge your thinking commies or morons or something close to those terms. You really should try some Buddhist meditation; it might very well calm you down and as the Cherokee say, "Help you to become a real human being." You've got a ways to go, but it's worth the effort.
EdP, you are not educated and it appears you have a distorted view of yourself. You should check your ego at the door if you want to comment here, you are embarrassing yourself. I simply have smarts and common sense and liberals like you have neither. That is why you are so frustrated. So perhaps you should return to school, study a bit harder then come on back. I realize when I call you people " a liberal" you consider that a ad hominem but that is the irony. If you don't want to be called what you are, then you tell us all what to call you. Amazing!
DeleteOh and BTW way EdP I will pray for your healing. Both physically and mentally. You are a very angry man.
Tell me this Ed,, If your so damned smart, why are you a liberal?
Deleteyou have access to the same information I do, but can't see,( or refuse too) the damage done to our state and country by the vary
politicians you support?
"O" and Co. have spent us into oblivion, and nothing to show for it.
So tell us the wisdom in that. No budget since "O" took office and just kept spending.
"O" loves his executive orders. ( screw Congress) So much for the rule of law. NOW,, if it was a Republican doing what "O" has been doing, all hell would break lose. " educated" double standard?
I say "book" smart ,,"practical" stupid.
Walt,
DeleteThat's why your nickname is Jethro.
Like I said, Todd and Walt, you boys are simply outclassed and unable to discern simple concepts. You would rather let your prejudices direct your thinking. Todd, your words and attempts at essays reek with anger and venom, exposing inner anger. Guaranteed, I've seen much more of this world and understand more of the cultures who share this planet with us. You are a small minded person, a What's the Matter With Kansas or Idiot America prototype. Personal villification is your forte, as it doesn't require intelligence or education to master that dark art. And quite frankly, your writing is of such poor quality, maintaining your own blog is the only outlet to see your writing anywhere other than the waste basket.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the compliments EdP. When a liberal attacks, I feel like I have won the debate. The problem with you EdP is you have a inflated sense of yourself and of your importance. If you want to play the game I would suggest some prozac to calm you down and then a bit of humble pie to get you into a state where you are believable.
DeleteIt fascinates me that you lefty's always complain of the spelling and the writing style and avoid the meat of the post. But when someone thinks they are better than others like you do, that is a telling tactic. So EdP, I would suggest you volunteer for some things and help others and then you might get a bit of a better view of your self importance.
If the test of who wins a particular debate is -whichever party attacks with greater ferocity is the loser-, then the Progressives have won this current debate in a total, unequivical, landslide. From January 2009 onward, amidst the worst economic conditions in 50+ years, its been one unintelligent, emotion-based attack after another on the President and his colleagues. Non-stop. So, Todd you may be onto something. Obama still has a massive upper hand heading into November.
DeleteI see you have continued to insult and name call instead of provide reasoned, cogent rebuttals to counter dissenting opinions. Like I said many moons ago Todd, it is because you don't know how to craft a basic, correctly structured, opinion piece. I am very much aware of my strengths and weaknesses, but since you, who demonstrates his lack of ability in Rhetoric on a daily basis, yet acts like he's Wm. Buckley, needs to be reminded of just how undeserving of intellectual respect your essays and responses are. And, BTW, I'm already on Prozac for PTSD from combat in Vietnam so you should think carefully before opening that yapper of yours and calling people commies, lefty slime, etc. because they aren't as close to being members of a freicorps as you are. You just aren't worth debating with as you are UNEDUCATED. But that's what you don't get, that you don't even know the rules of the game you are trying--and failing--to play.
DeleteEdP, it appears my essays must be beyond your scope of comprehension. You only come here to whine an complain rather than deal with the post. Perhaps a change in meds is in order. You consistently tell us about your service in Vietnam. Thanks for your service but I must say I use my dad and his brother as examples of a veteran who did their service , came back and never talked about it. Just did his job in WW2. Maybe you should try that and your frame of mind might improve.
DeleteHa....member of the Freikorps....very good Ed. Yeah, its true, Todd does not realize it but he is a fascist and actually is antithetical to American values (as opposed to George, who realizes it since he probably saw the Hitler Youth first hand as a child).
DeleteWhat is really sad is when people who claim to patriots are so stupid that they don;t even know what it means.
Frisch
Frisch, you crack me up. You practice communism everyday in your life and words so I guess anyone to the right of you is a fascist. You need to realize your ideology is outmoded and has no place on the planet except your recent vacation spot, Red China. BTW who paid for that vacation to your favorite place, was that the taxpayers? What a hoot, you are the only person I know who praises the Red Chinese and claim you are a patriotic American. Amazing!
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDelete"The output of our economy went up 57 times since my birth and the population only doubled! American productivity is unmatched over the last 62 years."
Wages have remained stagnant for average workers for 40 of those 62 years despite the spike in productivity, which has created the wage/ productivity gap that is responsible for the ballooning of private debt in the US. In that same 40 years the federal government e.g. tax/ tariff policies and trade policies, has been taken over by big industry. That is when all the government growth has taken place along with all the national debt above $900 billion.
Your corporatist policies have destroyed America while benefiting large US based Transnational corporations.
BenE you have it wrong as usual. Corporations are just a bunch of people banding together to create something. You just don't know what you are talking about.
DeleteRegarding who created the mess. There is enough blame to go around but when you liberals started populating the bureaucracy and winning elections things went down the crapper pretty quick. You steal the money from the hard working Americans through tax and regulatory policies and give it to the lazy asses. Sure we all want to help those that can't help themselves but you liberals give it to every lazy person who could actually work.
Your over regulation and nanny state policies have made our country uncompetitive forcing relocation. Look in the mirror BenE for the real reason the country is having problems.
So Walt why don't you tell us why you are a conservative? Why do you support Beck? President Bush alos used executive orders, and spent the nation into oblivion. Why don't you explain the cost of the war in Iraq, the cost of the Bush tax cuts, the cost of Medicare D and the economic failure that almost crashed our economy? The Bush tax cuts are by far the largest contributor to the debt. It wasn't all "Libs" Walt. The GOP has as much or more responsibility than the DNC. But both parties failed our nation. Blaming "Libs" is foolish. Don't let the facts intefer with reality Walt.
ReplyDeleteKen Jones
Ken,
DeleteSeeing Walt's near orgasmic response to Rommey/Ryan, I would say there isn't any logical basis, and no way for him to respond to your excellent questions. As with all the other brain-compromised followers of Beck and Limbaugh, its all touchy, feely emotions. 100% emotions and feeling with these righties. Dreams of a 21st century white-bread America, with pretty white picket fences, and preppy looking, smiling wives who drink a little too much on Saturday night before heading to church. Yes sir, Jethro is near ecstacy with the knowledge that the Republican Party is returning to their roots- with 2 midwestern-type Christian white boys who value god, big money and long-honed traditional values of greed, de-regulation, pollution, discrmination, and stomping on the lazy poor people of our blessed land. Yes sir, god has delivered us this ticket of Willard and Ryan to lead All Good Americans in the battle against the evil forces of President Obama and his Chicago cronies, in a massive war against Socialists, Marxist/Leninists, and Hybrid Automobiles. god bless the Republican Party!
Robert I really don't expect an answer. It would take Walt some time to track down Beck's responses to the questions posed. Walt relies on Beck and Fox to form his opinions. Walt seems like a decent man, he helped in TX and seems sincere. I just can't agree with his views on a political level or when he dives into the gutter with Todd.
DeleteKen Jones
Gutter? No Ken Jones, that is your abode. You have no importance in the workings of the country and are unimportant to people like Walt and myself. We have actually supplied the hard work it takes to make the country work. You freeloaders are the problem.
DeleteI am not a person who follows Glenn Beck but from what I see and read he is promoting freedom and American values. Since you liberals don't I would say you are in the wrong country and the wrong time in history. Albania 1960 would suit you two better.
To most honest historians and demographers, the present wave of Tea People and media charlatans like Beck and Limbaugh is simply the last vestiges of frustration and near nostalgic pinings eminating from a dying demographic of people (White, anglocentric, Christian American men), who are witnessing many related upheavals in American cultural mores and institutions. Every honest person knows the reality of the coming minority status in America for this group. They are sad and angry that in the next generation they will no longer be able to say to themselves- "its good to be the King"
DeleteYes Todd the gutter, or whatever may be lower. I didn't say anything negative about Walt; just disagree with probably 95% of his views. But you accuse me of being in the gutter then call me a freeloader. I have been gainfully employed within Nevada County for over 30 years, paid 23 years of property tax, volunteered at my kid's schools and marched as a Marching President. I have never collected a dime for welfare or food stamps. I have never been foreclosed or filed a bankruptcy. I paid for a kid's college and paying for another who enrolled this year. I have another daughter in high school that will also be helped with college. I contribute to my 401K.
DeleteFreeloader?
I call pure unadulterated BS. Furthermore I can run and work circles around you Todd, 7 days a week 365 days a year. Everyone can see the comments you make to Ben, Ed, Robert, Steve, Mike, Douglas and anyone else that has a political difference from you. The gutter comment fits like a shoe and I suspect you enjoy the environment.
Ken Jones
Robert, I think you are simply hung up on your racial issues and then try and transfer them to your opposition. That is a SOP for all liberals. We are the party of freedom and we honor the individual. Your attacks on the Beck's and Limbaughs cracks me up. They are at least successful people and they preach freedom as well. Therefore, the only conclusion I can make about your positions is you are against those things. Too bad.
DeleteKen Jones, you are simply a liberal bully. I respond to your attacks in kind and it is obvious you can't hack what you dish out. You are a freeloader because you take other people's hard earned money and give it to those who don't do anything for it. You use the government as your political proxy enabler. You are in the gutter not me, I am on the skyscraper looking down at you and it is not a pretty sight.
My guess is you have embellished your resume in the above comment and since you are a liberal, you are not believable. My guess is you employment might just be in the public sector because I never read the kind of leftwing crap you spew from a businessman. Am I right? Tell us.
Todd not a single word was embellished. Worked for and still worked for private business over 36 years. I pay my share in taxes, I don't take handouts. My vote counts as much as yours, so your whining about my hard earned money falls silent in the light of the truth.
DeleteKen Jones
Oh OK, sure.
DeleteTodd, like Ken, I'm still working in my profession- 26 years for me after getting my graduate degree. Ditto on taxes. And a hell of a lot more productive than you are. And I pay more than 13% in effective Federal tax!
DeleteSo, it sounds like Todd's ignorant stereotypes of people who don't think like you are off-base. Per usual.
Oh yeah, sure, OK. Prove it. You anonymous folks are all the same blowhards. No one believes you. Try again with a real name.
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDeleteYou are clueless or playing a game. I'm not sure which one but it does get boring.
Ben,
DeleteHe's simply very lonely and sad I believe. Off the wall posts and responses based in some alternate reality, and the need to tell us several times that "everyone likes me, I am very popular in the County" are very telling signs.
Well heck BenE, take a nap then.
DeleteYou two sourpusses don't get self deprecating humor. I feel bad for you both. Return to your caves and sleep.
DeleteRobert,
DeleteI am pretty sure he was picked on as a kid and as a defense mechanism became a useful tool to those who wouldn't otherwise associate with him. Try and get him to show comprehension of any issue and either he reverts to personal attacks or avoids the issue.
Say what? You guys crack me up. I am a very likable stable person who has many friends. No on picked on me because God made me a tall fellow and for some reason the bullies left me alone. I have a very kind and generous disposition. I think you two need some mental health help and you are simply a lousy judge of people.
DeleteI bet you two or three lovelies won't be attending the fundraiser for the wounded Penn Valley soldier right? Oops, golly, that might help the war effort. Sorry.
Todd,
ReplyDeleteDoes sodium constrict or dilate blood vessels? How about Caffeine?
I think you need to take your prozac today BenE.
DeleteTodd,
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to join in on your pointless responses. My last comment is as relevant as a majority of you comments. It is nothing.
What would you say if you found out that a welfare recipient is corrupting the political system so they would get more welfare?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-18/dear-mr-dimon-is-your-bank-getting-corporate-welfare-.html
BenE, you are simply an ignorant man and when confronted with the truth toy can't handle it. I realize liberals like you think they know everything and others don't and should bow to your greatness. You are the laughingstock on these blogs since we all see how ridiculous your opinions are. But hey, keep making them, you make my points about liberals for me. For that I do less writing.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I have always had the opinion that corporate welfare is wrong (except for some farm subsides) so your dig is meaningless.
What in the world did Ben ever do to you to warrant that barrage of personal attacks? Ben is the most humble, patient and tolerant poster on any of the local blogs.
DeleteWhat, you never read his personal assaults on me? You guys really stick together. Why don't you read his posts above my responses and get beck to the thread. Amazing.
DeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteI have a very simple message and generally stick to it. I don't ever expect to get Todd, George, Russ, Greg G, Mickey M, and Walt to change their minds but get other information out to those who cruise the blogs but don't participate. The corruption is literally the key problem on every issue because it has massively distorted our representative form of government. My patience is shortest with Todd due his being a former public servant. I hope his blog persona is not how he represented the people as a public official.
Now for Todd,
We agree on corporate welfare, check.
My blog personality was loved by my constituents. They even brought me back for another four years. The District was varied and contains Nevada City. So sorry BenE, you have that wrong too. What a hoot!
DeleteSo where are all those loving former constituents of a bygone era to come to your defense here? Where are they? All deceased?
DeleteLOL!
DeleteI'm wondering myself if all this derisive bluster from Todd is an act to cover up something inside. Examples such as painting you as a "laughingstock" appears clearly to be Projecting Behavior. Ben, having been to your events, spoken to you, (and voted for you) everything he paints is an obvious 180.
ReplyDeleteLOL!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteThat was the same nervous laugh from Todd that I hear out of Romney when he has to face a few difficult questions.
DeleteNervous laugh on a blog? Now that's funny. Y'all will be in chains said the racist Biden, your hero, What a hoot!
DeleteWow, nothing could be a better example of what an absolute simpleton Todd really is than this thread, read in whole. Someone disagrees with Todd, and they must be a liberal, a freeloader, worthless to the community, and a liar. Meanwhile Todd is a "skyscraper" "beloved" "well endowed" and entirely innocent of any human foible or peccadillo.
ReplyDeleteEven responding to this guy has become nothing more than pointless self gratification.
Ben, Robert, Ed, Ken, et al. you are all making the key point here: Todd's ceaseless personal attacks, rude behavior, inability to address stated issues, self important exhortations about his own merits, and true believer adoption of the conservatarian philosophy without the the intellectual chops to back it up, are the insane ramblings of a deeply insecure, narcissistic, sad, little man who is looking at the end of his life and trying to relive the swagger of his youth. Todd could not get elected dog catcher in Nevada County today. Even the conservatives know he is mentally bankrupt.
This entire exercise is a waste of breathe (sic). I'm going back to reading the New York Times and the National Journal over breakfast.
Frisch
Steve,
ReplyDeleteI know better than to engage with Todd but he touched on a topic I am passionate about, an American economy that works. I don't expect much as far as a real dialogue but have to try anyway. When you work by yourself outdoors blogs on breaks seem to be the only interaction I get some days.
I would agree with you that Todd couldn't elected to any public office today, no matter how small of a position. I generally state my opinions and try to give sources or cite some common idea links to the dialogue. Trying to get into the weeds on issues on blogs is fruitless venture because nuance doesn't type out well.
Ken, Ed, and Robert,
As usual we made some good points that went unanswered or should I say they were answered but with insults instead of with content. Keep up the good work.
Have a good weekend.
Dog catcher? Heck, that pays good money now, I bet I could get the position. LOL!
DeleteWhat a hoot. We get to see why no one likes the Frisch. Cracks me up. Jealousy is a sad state of life.
ReplyDeleteBased on the absence of a single one of the far-right locals coming to your defense-after your arguments have been blasted to smithereens on here, about 10 times, I would assert that it is YOU that no one likes.
DeleteLOL!
DeleteTodd I happen to have much respect for Mr. Frisch. And what he states rings true. I also have the same respect for Ben, Ed, Robert, Mike and Douglas. They all bring reasoned arguements that become fodder for Juvinall insults.
ReplyDeleteKen Jones
As Todd himself has said, when you see that level of attack coming against the more thougtful and knowledable posters on here, over and over again, I would say we have destroyed Mr. Todd in the area of debate. Many times over. But its clear that Todd considers 50% of Nevada County residents the enemy.
DeleteLiberal birds of a feather, stick together. I get that. You dolts attack all the time and use slights and slams to denigrate conservatives and when we return fire we hear the wah wah wah of a bunch of crybabies. You libs can't help yourselves, I know your have not moved past age 12,your P{resident and his lapdog Biden prove that everyday. So please, keep whining because the indies who read this blog in droves get to see what you nuts are all about.
DeleteTodd, its very clear to us that you have been utterly DESTROYED on this thread, conclusively Smacked Down in matters of the intellectual battle. TKO.
DeleteHow about showing a humble side for once?
Only an insane person in total denial would claim I was bested here.
DeleteSweeny Todd, something in your dirt is making your mind become more irrational with every post. Frisch picked up on my reference in last post and predictably it flew over your head, like all non-cliched references. Your answers wander and are off topic because you don't understand what is being asked. You pretend to know about subjects which your writing proves you know nothing about. Like Rush and Beck, you use insult and invective rather than research a facts to support your point of view. Unlike you Republicans, a great part of my life has been devouted to people and causes that did not benefit myself. Keep pumping your ego here, we don't mind.
ReplyDeleteEdP, Sweeney Todd? What a hoot! You libs on prozac crack me up. When you get some education come on back and debate. For now, you are simply out of my league of smarts.
DeleteI found the program scedual for the DNC convention..
ReplyDeleteBJC•36 minutes ago−
I'm sure they're going to hand out the same at the Democrat Convention???? Here's a schedule of the DNC convention in case you didn't get the email....
Democratic Convention Schedule
4:00 PM – Opening Flag Burning Ceremony
4:05 PM – Singing of "God Damn America" led by Rev. Jeremiah Wright
4:10 PM – Pledge of Allegiance to Obama
4:15 PM – Ceremonial I hate America led by Michelle Obama
4:30 PM – Tips on Dodging Sniper Fire – Hillary Clinton
4:45 PM – Rev Jessie Jackson Leads Castrati Choir in Singing "Great Balls of Fire"
5:00 PM – UFO Abduction Survival – Joe Biden
5:30 PM – Eliot Spitzer Speaks on "Family Values" via Satellite
5:45 PM – Tribute to All 57 States
6:00 PM – Joe Biden Delivers 100,000-Word Speech Featuring 23-Minute Question and 2-Hour Answer
8:30 PM – Airing of Grievances by the Clintons
9:00 PM – Bill Clinton Delivers Rousing Endorsement of Obama Girl
9:15 PM – Tribute Film to Freedom Fighters at Gitmo – Michael Moore
9:45 PM – Personal Finance Seminar - Charlie Rangle
10:00 PM – Denunciation of Bitter Gun Owners
10:30 PM – Ceremonial Waving of White Flag for IRAQ, & Afghanistan
11:00 PM – Obama Energy Plan Symposium/Tire Gauge Demonstration
11:15 PM – Free Gov. Blagojevich rally
11:30 PM – Obama Accepts Tony and Latin Grammy Awards
11:45 PM – Feeding of the Delegates with 5 Loaves and 2 Fish – Obama Presiding
12:00 AM – Official Nomination of Obama by Bill Maher
12:01 AM – Obama Accepts Nomination for Lord and Savior
12:05 AM – Celestial Choirs Sing
3:00 AM – Biden Delivers Acceptance Speech
Very cute, Walt. This just in; the RNC will start with a re-broadcast of Triumph Of the Will, followed by the highly touted new movie, Swindler's List, sponsered by the Kocha Kola Soft Drink Company.
ReplyDeleteThe keynote address will be given by Dimwitt Noequity, who will explain how to build wealth by borrowing at least 95% of a businesses purchase price, then selling off the profitable divisions, saddeling what's left with the debt, but paying huge dividends to the small clique of investors, and declaring bankruptcy, dumping the workers pensions and promised health care, and when the deal is finalized, flying down to the Cayman Islands for a week of celebrating your $100,000,000 profit for gaming the system, producing nothing, screwing the workforce and basically doing nothing to help your country or your fellow countrymen. And while two wars are being waged by your country, you make sure none of your five sons serve their country fighting--a scheme, non productive 'equity partnership' is a much more glorious way to serve.
And when the convention is over, together they will all sing the Horst Wessel song and praise their Wagnerian hero and brilliant philosopher, Edvard von Peretz, brother of King Barbarosa.
Walt, these commies are too funny. You aren't even German.
Delete