Weeks and months have gone by and still our country does not have the answers to the murder of our Ambassador and three other brave Americans. I listen to the silence of our national media (except for FOX and some conservative radio) and wonder what happened? The murder of one American, let alone four, anywhere in the world would be written about and diagnosed relentlessly (and rightly so) until all the facts are known.What I see is the misdirection of the facts and the mainstream (lamestream) media just dutifully do their stenography for the Obama administration and all his lackeys. Hillary Clinton, the person in in charge of the department Chris Stevens worked for, just blew off the Congress and the media when asked about the murders. Followup was non existent of her embarrassing responses. Remember her saying "what does it matter now" diatribe? HERE is the Youtube of it chack at 1:30 point. How terrible her comments were for the greatest country on the planet. She is truly unqualified to be President.
She and Obama want us all to think it was just too long ago and any facts are now too stale to pursue. I say they have made the USA a embarrassment because the reasons the murders happened were unAmerican in my view., When was the time American Presidents let fellow Americans get murdered without trying to save them? Even Jimmy Carter tried to save the hostages, Thomas Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt and most other Presidents did the same. One American in trouble was enough to send in the troops to save him or her.
Not this administration. Americans now have no hope of rescue if Obama and his minions are called upon. Reagan sent the troops into Grenada to save our kids. George H.W. Bush took out Noriega and LBJ moved into Santa Domingo. Almost anywhere an American is in trouble our President would come to their rescue. Not this administration. You get into trouble you are on your own. Obama was hidden away for seven hours during the siege on our people September 11, 2012. Where was he? Why did someone (golly, who is the C and C?) tell our people to "stand down"? For God's sake, why would Obama forsake his fellow Americans? I do not know but it has become apparent he hopes it all fades away.
In most of the days of my life, an American in the world who was in trouble could rely on his country to come to his aid. It is the American way. Even the French went into Chad last year to protect their people. The French! Yet, in my opinion, the lamestream stenographers we once called the press are so far up Obama's and Hillary's asses they are unable to do their jobs. I make a plea to all of those lamestreams today. Extract your heads from the asses of Hillary and Obama and pursue relentlessly the answers for us, the American people. Or quit and go back to waiting tables at Mickey D's.
No more posts Jen. Move on.
ReplyDeleteJen you are moderated so when you tell us and we can verify your true identity, you can then return. Otherwise, I am no longer able to allow you to attack me without it.
DeleteHey todd, this is jen. I wanted to apologize for my vulgar comments I made earlier. I was just really upset that you were no longer going to allow me to comment. It probably has to do with the fact that us LIBS are less mature than conservatives and express ourselves in childish ways. I have been doing a lot of thinking/growing these past few weeks and am starting to understand the conservative mindset. I believe that you truly love america and that maybe I should take a second look at my beliefs, which may possibly result in changing some of them to a more conservative leaning. Anyways, I wanted to thank you for your conservative guidance and all that you have done for this country.
Delete-jen
" Reagan sent the troops into Grenada to save our kids. "
ReplyDeleteCan you show me the Constitutional authority that justified our invasion of Grenana?
I don't know where Grenana is.
DeleteRegarding the right of our President to go save our people as a listing in our Constitution. Hmmm, I guess you will have to find that PaulE. I kinda think it is part f "Commander and Chief".
Todd
ReplyDeleteCan you refresh me. I thought Congress and not the President has the sole right to declare war under our Constitution. what makes you think differently? Can you show me the declaration of war from Congress that enabled our invasion of Grenada? The invasion of Grenada was for the purpose of regime change.
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;"
PaulE can you tell me where LBJ got the power to invae Santa Domingo?
DeleteMy guess is a lot of these "invasions" are "police actions" which fall short of a declaration of war.
PaulE, could you enlighten me and my readers on how you would , say, go into Libya and protect the Ambassador. Would you say that was an invasion?
No that's not an invasion but a protection of American sovereign rights to defend our Embassy. However in the case of Grenada it was because it involved a regime change as the purpose which is indeed an act of war. It was widely condemned as a violation of international law. Do you believe that the constitution is obsolete in this matter?
ReplyDeleteHere PaulE, your attempts to again rewrite history are exposed. This lin on Grenada k will show you are wrong as usual. But keep trying, maybe someone will listen.
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada
The Constitution is not obsolete in this matter. It seems to be a matter of interpretation about about the meanings yu describe.
Gee Todd, you missed this in your wiki link. It helps to read the whole articlw.
ReplyDelete"The military government of Hudson Austin was deposed and replaced by a government appointed by Governor-General Paul Scoon until elections were held in 1984."
I guess you agree then that the Second Amendment is also a "matter of interpretation".
PaulE, you are simply cherry picking and parsing. You said it was no invasion so I placed the proof. You should read JIMBO's comment following. He says the whole thing was not about the kids being rescued. So as you can see there is enough parsing going on. I stand by my comments as they are correct.
DeleteRegarding the Second Amendment. I think there are 20,000 laws passed in the USA on weapons so it appears the Second has been interpreted already.
Grenada was a total war mongering move by a paranoid President. There was no American in any type of verified danger. Nor was the airstrip being built for Cuban/Soviet or other communist military purposes. That was a bold faced lie to gin up the public, which was still in the midst of the Cold War.
ReplyDeleteThat is historical fact.
Jimbo, you should read the Wiki entry and get back to me. You are simply wrong.
DeleteTodd
ReplyDeleteI was referring to Libya about the non invasion. Sorry for the confusion. Grenada was an outright invasion of a sovereign country with the purpose of regime change. Totally unconstitutional.
as for the so called student hostages here's what the Christian Science Monitor had to say about at the time.
"Two members of the US Embassy in Barbados, Ken Kurze and Linda Flohr, reported over the weekend before the invasion that "US students in Grenada were, for the most part, unwilling to leave or be evacuated. They were too intent on their studies." Another r port, in the London press, that three US diplomats visited Grenada at the same time and appeared to have agreed on orderly departures for any Americans wishing to leave, may or may not refer to the same thing.
The White House acknowledged that two days before the invasion, Grenada had offered the United States "an opportunity to evacuate American citizens. But officials said the Reagan administration came to distrust the offer." This was, they said, because the Grenadian government had promised that the airport would be open on Monday for evacuation flights, but it was instead closed. Only later did the White House admit that four charter flights had indeed left the airport on Monday.
Some of those who left on Monday were American medical students. The Chancellor of the medical school, Dr. Charles Modica, who was visiting New York, declared on the day of the invasion that he was in touch with amateur radio operators at the college. "I think the President's information is very wrong," he said, "because some of the Americans started to go out yesterday.''
OK PaulE, long cut and paste. Excellent. What is your point?
DeleteTo refute your contention that "Reagan sent the troops into Grenada to save our kids". That was the WMD's, Bay of Tonkin style lie to get us into war. I suggest you read this from Ron Paul to get Libertarian perspective on the Constitutional questions involved.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul274.html
"The declaration of war power requires the government to obey the law of nature that that no individual or group may initiate force against another. It ensures that before the executive launches a military action against another nation, a separate body (Congress) deliberates on evidence and agrees that said nation has been an aggressor. Only then is waging war justified.
This interpretation is supported by every declaration of war in U.S. history.
PaulE we have a argument without much difference but you are the one making the claims and I am refuting and refining them. We saved our medical students since I watched it happening on live TV at the time. Where were you?
DeleteRon Pau; has some good ideas but I disagree with him on foriegn policy and diplomacy.
Todd
ReplyDeleteWe've never been in a war you didn't like.
Can you list the wars and my positions on them? Or are you as usual, BSing?
Delete"I watched it happening on live TV at the time" Watching it happen on TV might have been a mistake. This was the first test of what later became press pool reporting in war zones. A small number of reporters were chosen at random and put on an aircraft carrier which served as the press HQ. Reporters were then taken in groups a two dozen or so by helicopter on military approved and choreographed visits to the "war zone", unlike Vietnam, where reporters were free to roam about and report what they saw. The reporters who went to the island then filed reports that ALL of the reporters then sent to their respective news agencies, along with military provided video. You were not watching "live" television. A reporter for the Miami Herald, who was not chosen for the press pool, chartered a boat and went to Grenada anyway. What he discovered was that the stories and video being fed to the reporters and the public were not accurate and in some cases contrived. For example, video clips showing marines storming a hill with a monastery full of Cubans on top was totally made-up from edited clips from other places on the island. How did he know? He was in the monastery at the time the alleged attack took place and there was no one in sight. No marines, no Cubans, no one. The whole reason for invading Grenada remains a mystery, unless you consider it as a test of press control in was zones. This led to the imbedded reporters of the Iraq era who became shy about reporting atrocities because they became friends with the troops and depended on the troops of safety. One does not bite the hand that protects them from harm.
ReplyDeleteJoe, you must live in am alternate universe. No Cubans eh? So those men in the Cuban uniforms were not Cubans? The airport was by the Grenadian boy scouts or some other outfit? Sheesh, why are you making this up? What is the point of trying to rewrite the history? You assume I don't know anyone who was there? Amazing.
DeleteWhere are the photos and/or documents proving the airstrip was built and controlled by Cubans? Can you provide a link, please?
DeleteGolly, I watched it every night in real time Jimbo. Where were you?
DeleteIf you watched it every night, then the clips will exist of the Cubans building the airstrip.
DeleteSo you fell for the US government propaganda being fed to the media. Fortunately today that kind of stuff cannot happen with the connected world of social media.
Yeah, that media that just loved Reagan. What a hoot. You are too funny.
DeleteThere wasn't any live TV coverage. the press pool was sequestered on an aircraft carrier, ferried to the island on helicopters, and given "tours" of the action arranged and choreographed by the military. Video clips were pre-made and distributed to the press by the military. A reporter for the Miami Herald who did not get a random press pass for the carrier chartered a boat and went to Grenada himself. TV clips showing marines storming a hill with a monastery full of Cubans was shown on national TV, except it was fabricated. The reporter was at the hill in the monastery at the time of the alleged assault... and no one was there.
ReplyDeleteThose firefights with the Cubans were made in Hollywood and used by the military eh? You are too funny Joe.
DeleteYou're right, Todd. I can't help but hoot at Joe! I mean, what a hoot!
DeleteCan anyone list the name of a single American in Grenada during the time leading up to the invasion who was being held against their will, or was being directly threatened by either a Cuban or Grenadian?
ReplyDeleteGrenada was simply an opportunity for Ronnie to score some points in his mind against the Evil Empire who he imagined taking over the tiny, peaceful spice island.
Do your own research Jimbo. You apparently were not paying attention back then.
DeleteResearch completed. Cannot find a single documented American being held against their will or directly threatened by Cuban or Grenadian forces or officials. If you have better information, let it out. Otherwise, your statements about Grenada have no credibility.
DeleteHere is a excerpt from Military.com for your enjoyment. You should open your mind a bit more and stop relying on Commie.com. LOL!
Delete"Bishop was eventually murdered in October of 1983 during a power struggle with hard-liners in his own movement, creating a breakdown in civil order that threatened the lives of American medical students who were living on the island. In response, and at the request of allied Caribbean nations, the US launched "Operation Urgent Fury," sending the Marines to the north of the island and Army Rangers to the south."
Here is the link
http://www.military.com/Resources/HistorySubmittedFileView?file=history_grenada.htm
A "breakdown in civil order"/ civil war /internal coup is not a direct hostage situation or threat to Americans, which would justify any US invasion. That statement you linked to was just the military and US Govt. line of the time. No details to back up the generality and warhawk party line. The relatively few American students there could have easily just been evacuated, even with US military protection and supervision if need be, as has happened in many other situations around the world over the years. Instead, Ronnie found a good excuse to play war, and to act in a part he'd been dying play for years! Full out invasion on a foe that was outgunned 10,000 to 1. Cool. (even though Ronnie wouldn't use that term, which was way too hep for him).
DeleteSeems we have to agree to disagree. I know I am right and you think you are. But really, I am the one who is right.
DeleteNo, Todd the clips were not made in Hollywood. They were actual clips from Granada pieced together, they just were not when and what the military told reporters they were.
ReplyDeleteSo give us all the links to this conspiracy of yours Joe.
DeleteGive us your links to prove there was live coverage Todd. You won't find any. No reporters were allowed on the ground in Grenada for the first two days of the three day invasion. The reporters who charted the boat were "arrested" and taken off the island. I can prove what I say, can you?
ReplyDeleteYou made the allegations now prove it.
DeleteNO Todd, you claimed you were watching it on live TV and I stated that the invasion was not televised and the initial video shown to the public came from the military because all of the reporters were on an aircraft carrier and not allowed on the island which was true.
ReplyDeleteSince you can't prove you saw it live, because it was not broadcast live, perhaps your memory is beginning to fade. Here are some links discussing the invasion of Granada along with some relevant quotes from those articles.
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/27/world/us-bars-coverage-of-grenada-action-news-groups-protest.html
http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-law/news-media-and-law-
fall-2001/blame-grenada
It was ham radio operators who reported today that six journalists, including four Americans, had landed on the island in a chartered fishing boat.
The only pictures of the fighting in Grenada so far have been made by Defense Department photographers with the invasion force. The film is expected to arrive in Washington by Thursday night at the earliest, and the Pentagon will then decide which pictures will be released.
When American soldiers stormed the island's beaches at 5 a.m., journalists weren't there to document the invasion. - See more at: http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-law/news-media-and-law-fall-2001/blame-grenada#sthash.
Armed forces scuttled attempts by reporters to access the island by boat or small plane. - See more at: http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-law/news-media-and-law-fall-2001/blame-grenada#sthash.29OSNVLZ.dpuf
On Oct. 27, officials offered a small press pool a limited tour of the island. But then they grounded the media plane so reporters couldn't file their stories until after Reagan gave a speech on the invasion. On Oct. 30, reporters finally enjoyed unlimited access to Grenada but had to resort to footage and eyewitness accounts from military sources. - See more at: http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-law/news-media-and-law-fall-2001/blame-grenada#sthash.29OSNVLZ.dpuf
The invasion and rescue of American students was a joint USA and Caribbean nation operation. It appears it was a coalition and so American forces were in conjunction with others whose rules of reporting may have been different than ours. Youe links are not trustworthy so we just see it different. I am right and you are misguided.
DeleteYeah, like the poor Caribbean islands who rely on US aid for their literal survival as nations were going to refuse Ronnie's "offer" to join his coalition..
DeleteWow Jimbo, you should be in charge of our Sate Department. You don't know much, just like Hillary!
DeleteOh, I forgot.. the interview with the reporter from the Miami Herald who chartered the boat and pointed out the fabricated video can be found on a documentary called "War Made Easy" which I purchased but can probably be found on Netflix.
ReplyDeleteJust more leftwing propaganda to me. You can watch it as many times as you like. Like a Michael Moore fake-u-mentary.
DeleteOK Todd... just because it is a matter of fact and public record that reporters were on an aircraft carrier and given guided tours and military created video clips and then only on the third day of the "invasion", doesn't mean you have to believe it.
ReplyDeleteTodd's head stuck in sand, yet again, in a denial of reality. Just like virtually every other situation in the country and world today which isn't spun to the party line of the far right.
DeleteWe just believe the reports of different sources. Mine are correct and yours is not.
Delete